mirrored file at http://SaturnianCosmology.Org/ For complete access to all the files of this collection see http://SaturnianCosmology.org/search.php ========================================================== THOTH A Catastrophics Newsletter VOL V, No 1 Jan 15, 2001 EDITOR: Amy Acheson PUBLISHER: Michael Armstrong LIST MANAGER: Brian Stewart CONTENTS ERROR PROBES, TRUTH PROBES, AND SPACE PROBES . . . by Mel Acheson YEAR TWO THOUSAND AND ONE. . . . . . . . . . . . .by Dave Talbott HUBBLE TELESCOPE RELEASE CHALLENGED . . . . . . . . by Halton Arp A PERPENDICULAR EXPLOSION . . . . . . . by Kroniatalk and Friends STRANGE GRAVITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .by Wal Thornhill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ERROR PROBES, TRUTH PROBES, AND SPACE PROBES By Mel Acheson Christiaan Eijkman discovered that a bacterium in polished rice caused beriberi and an anti-toxin in the coating cured it. This was in 1886, just after the germ theory of disease had become fashionable. Eijkman verified his theory with a massive study of 280 000 people. He ruled out the possibility of other causal factors--sanitation, hygiene, and so on. And he cured victims by feeding them unpolished rice, just as his theory predicted. He was awarded a Nobel Prize for his achievement. Gerrit Grijns followed in Eijkman's footsteps. But Gerrit was a crackpot, that is, he had an altogether different idea. He imagined beriberi was caused not by something in the rice but by something not in the rice. He began looking for data that would raise doubts about Eijkman's theory: Beriberi was also associated with diets of tapioca root; foods other than rice polishings could cure it. And no one could find Eijkman's bacterium. Both theories explained the facts. Both theories predicted the cure. Both theories were verified. But Grijns' theory could be applied to a much larger assemblage of data and had benefits far beyond the domain of rice diets and beriberi. Today astronomers attribute the non-Newtonian motions of stars and galaxies to an infection of dark matter in the universe. Gravitational theory--which has been experimentally verified many, many times--can explain the observed motions only by assuming there's some unseen matter swirling around outside what we see. The cure is in the galactic polishings. Now along comes a crackpot idea: Perhaps the non-Newtonian motions aren't caused by something out there but by something not out there. Perhaps gravity is not out there. An abundance of anomalies raises doubts about gravitational theory: Galaxies that are supposed to be astronomically far from each other are interacting; the primary distance indicator, the cosmological redshift, is quantized in sharply delineated bands; matter is collimated into extremely thin, long, and coherent filaments; concentrations of matter that should be pulling everything in are spewing everything out. And the quantity of dark matter needed to explain those anomalous motions turns out to be over 90% of the universe. Douglas Allchin, in his recent paper "The Epistemology of Error", discusses the episode of Eijkman, Grijns, and beriberi. He emphasizes that the important distinction for characterizing knowledge is not the conventional "dichotomies of fact/artifact, true/false, and right/wrong." Rather, the "key epistemological distinction ... is between empirically unresolved questions, or uncertainty, and resolved questions." "Grijns's challenge was not to show ... that beriberi was a nutrient deficiency. Rather, he had to show first how initial evidence consistent with a bacterial interpretation was ambiguous. Then ... it could indicate something else. Allchin identifies "uncertainty as the primitive state. Fact and artifact co-emerge from undifferentiated perception." He goes on to assert that simply confirming a theory doesn't provide reliability. Verification must be accompanied by a search for alternate explanations, which he calls "error probes". He presents the idea of error probes in a rather static way: A theory, such as Eijkman's, which is verified, is later shown to be "erroneous". But in moving from one to the other, a dynamic process occurs. One can't assume (as the term "error" tends to do) that the process stops with the second theory. The later theory may eventually be shown also to be erroneous. The concept of "domain of validity" fits better with an ongoing process of discovering alternative explanations. The domain of Eijkman's theory was the data then available about rice diets and the effects of polishings. Within the boundaries of that domain, Eijkman's theory was true. Verification, then, is a "truth probe" that probes no further than a theory's frontier. Eijkman's efforts were limited to truth probes. He neglected to perform an error probe because he assumed (albeit unconsciously) that the domain of the bacterial theory was infinite. You can't learn anything new if you limit yourself to verifying what you already know. Presumably, Eijkman was not in a position to be able even to imagine a cause bigger than bacterial infection. But his work began the process of differentiation that prodded Grijns to imagine a bigger concept. Similarly, Newton was not in a position to imagine anything bigger than gravity. His error--and that of his mainstream followers down to the present day--was the assumption that the domain of validity of gravitational theory is universal. Newton didn't know about plasma or galaxies or redshifts or error probes. His followers, however, don't have this excuse of simple ignorance. Their efforts to preserve the theory at the expense of the phenomena are culpable. To establish what Allchin calls "deep reliability", it's necessary to investigate possible alternative explanations. "[R]eliability hinges on a dual process of confirmation and ruling out error." Today there are a number of alternatives to the Newtonian idea of universal gravitation. Tom Van Flandern has developed a theory of "limited action" gravity. Fred Hoyle and Jayant Narlikar have proposed a variable-mass version of gravitation. And there are several proposals of electrical and plasma dynamics that largely or entirely replace gravity. All these theories explain more data and have further-reaching implications than the mainstream theory. Their domains are larger. Their potential benefits are larger. Their promises of increased understanding of the universe are larger. Universal gravitation suffers from "shallow reliability" that extends no further than verification. Even that is eroding as space probes discover anomalous details to once-confirmatory data. Ambiguity is increasing. Knowledge heretofore assumed to be secure is slipping back into the primitive state of uncertainty. It will re-emerge transformed by a new resolution. The error probe, when finally it's forced on a stubborn and blind establishment, will find the error to be Newton's. Mel Acheson thoth at whidbey.com **************************************************************** YEAR TWO THOUSAND AND ONE By Dave Talbott Year Two Thousand and One. I like the sound of that. Taking a momentary break from book-related work, I'd like to offer a few notes and asides on what promises to be our most productive year ever. "INTERSECT 2001"--WORLD CONFERENCE, July 6-9. The event will be held in Laughlin, Nevada, and we expect to attract a minimum of 200 attendees, including a couple of dozen internationally respected scholars and scientists invited as special observers. Presenters will include many of those at the September 2000 seminar, but also a few noteworthy additional names to be announced shortly. The event will include extensive presentations on the Electric Universe and Saturn Model, with a good deal of animation and graphic material presented for the first time. "THUNDERBOLTS OF THE GODS." Over the past 60 days we've made substantial headway on the book, scheduled for completion by June 30 this year. This will be the first integrated presentation of the Saturn Model and Electric Universe and will represent a major step forward. In this regard, I must mention that Wal and I have received superb help from Amy Acheson in assembling previous material into a working narrative--a tremendous challenge in view of the breadth of subject. It will not be a small book, and it will be richly illustrated in full color. DATA BASE. Thanks to the financial support obtained in the wake of the highly successful September seminar, the accomplished linguist Rens van der Sluijs is now working full time on the development of our mythological data base. This is a comprehensive, non-selective, region-by-region compendium of gods, their attributes and symbols, and listings of astronomical traditions, general folklore, and superstitions. This raw data base is supplemented by a listing of broadly-distributed or global mythical and symbolic motifs abstracted from the data base and currently totaling more than 500 themes. We expect the list to reach perhaps 1000. Of course the files will continue to evolve over the coming years, and eventually we expect to have many additional authorities contributing to this invaluable resource. SNAPSHOTS OF THE POLAR CONFIGURATION. In connection with the rapidly-growing data base, I'm now preparing a series of "snapshots" of the evolving planetary configuration. These are designed to enable objective researchers to test the predictive ability of the model along any lines they might choose. The model claims that the defining events of world mythology are directly connected to the illustrated phases of the configuration and to the violent transitions from one phase to another. For each snapshot there will be a listing of the story elements and visual symbols directly inspired by that phase. This overview will give independent researchers the tools needed to test the implications of the model down to hundreds of specific details. It will also enable the critic to challenge our claim of a unified theory by seeking out archetypal elements that are not expected or predicted under the model. Our claim, of course, is that all of archetypal mythology arose from the same core experiences of the human race and that substratum of ancient memories is highly unified. SCHOLARLY AND SCIENTIFIC OUTREACH. Perhaps our greatest progress over the past year resulted from liaison with such distinguished experts as astronomer Halton Arp, plasma cosmologist Tony Peratt, and geologist Robert Schoch. Our plan is to expand and accelerate such liaison in the coming months as we look ahead to the July world conference. In this regard, we will welcome suggestions from readers. We are seeking to identify uniquely open-minded researchers with the highest qualifications in these areas of interest: cosmology, astronomy, physics and mathematics, geology, history and philosophy of science, anthropology, archaeology, linguistics, comparative mythology, and comparative religion. We would particularly like to hear from readers who are in a good position to assist us in liaison with such experts. PERATT INSTABILITIES. Certainly the most promising developments of all in the year 2000 relate to the surprising information we received from Tony Peratt, Associate Director for Experimental Programs at the Los Alamos Laboratory and author of _Physics of the Plasma Universe_. Tony has devoted many years to the study of unstable plasma discharge configurations and personally documented what are now called, in plasma science, "Peratt Instabilities." (Some examples will be found in his textbook.) As it turns out, these discharge configurations provide a thoroughly convincing explanation for some of the most extraordinary and detailed aspects of the Saturnian configuration. The direct correspondence with various rock art and other ancient images (on which the Saturn Model is based) is so detailed and so precise that, to put it bluntly, the correspondence simply could not be due to accident. Though we're not able to say more at this time, if all goes as we now expect this breakthrough will enable us to present the Saturn Model on a much faster track. And the presentation will include laboratory demonstrations and computer simulations beyond anything we had earlier envisioned. All told, therefore, we have every reason to believe that 2001 will be a very good year. Dave Talbott ***************************************************************** HUBBLE TELESCOPE RELEASE CHALLENGED By Halton Arp On 26 October, the European Space Agency issued "breaking news" on Stephan's Quintet of galaxies: (http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0010/26hststephen/) It stated "Just by looking at this splendid [Hubble Space Telescope] image it is clear that the redshift discordance . . . is now finally resolved. Hubble's resolution is so high that individual stars can be discerned in [the lower redshift galaxy], showing that it is definitely closer than the [remaining higher redshift] group of galaxies." Surprisingly, "just looking at the picture" shows that the resolution of young stars in the high redshift galaxies is just as good as in the low redshift galaxy! HII regions of glowing gas are supposed to be a good indicator of galaxy distances. But in the Hubble picture they appear the same in both redshift systems. If the high redshift galaxies were really at their assumed redshift distances their HII regions would be relatively 7-8 times smaller and fainter. Obviously they are not. Contrary to the statement in this news release, the low redshift galaxy (NGC7320) has always been considered a nearby galaxy. It is only 31 arcminutes from the large, nearby NGC 7331, has the same redshift and resolution characteristics and is the normal type of companion which most large galaxies have. The point at issue has never been the distance of NGC 7320. It has always been whether the high redshift members of the Quintet are at the same close distance of NGC7320, thereby invalidating the redshift distance law on which the theory of an expanding universe is based. In addition to the above, the evidence that the high redshift galaxies are closeby is still the same or stronger than in the past, namely: 1) The edge of NGC7320 is extended toward the high redshift galaxies as if in interaction. The majority of its HII regions are on this side. Not shown in the Hubble picture is a long tail extending backward from NGC7320 supporting the interaction interpretation. 2) The differences in redshift between the high redshift members, if interpreted as velocity, is greater than 1000 km/sec. Galaxies are not supposed to have such high peculiar velocities. The accepted redshift-apparent magnitude relation would be destroyed for brighter galaxies. Moreover, if the galaxies were really travelling this fast, the group would dissipate on a very short time scale. The chances of our seeing them all so close together would be very small. 3) It has been shown that large galaxies like NGC7331, the parent to NGC7320, have higher redshift companions preferentially along their minor axes. In the present case, just on the other side of the minor axis of NGC7331 is a group of companion galaxies almost exactly matching the high redshift members of Stefan's Quintet in redshift, size and appearance - a circumstance very unlikely to occur by chance.) 4) Radio telescope measures in the region show a continuous connection between the high redshift companions on the east of NGC7331, through NGC7331 and toward Stefan's Quintet to the south west. All the above evidence has been published in numerous articles in the Astrophysical Journal in the 1970's (e.g. Astrophys. Journ. 183, 411, 1973) and summarized in the book Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies, Interstellar Media, 1987,) pp. 96-102.) It would seem to be an important responsibility for agencies like ESA and NASA, which are responsible for governing the use of Space Telescope, to release complete information and be careful to avoid one-sided and possibly misleading interpretations of observations.) Halton Arp Max-Planck-Institut fuer Astrophysik 31Oct. 2000) ADDENDUM The Space Telescope picture of Stefan's Quintet, however, also shows some new features that argue for the interaction of NGC7320 with the high redshift galaxies. The features are: 1) Large numbers of blue stars in the body of NGC7320. Even in a population I type dwarf, it is unusual to see such dense numbers of stars which have such short lifetimes. This means there must have been a very recent event which caused widespread star formation in NGC7320. The only other objects in the vicinity that could have caused such an event are the high redshift NGC7318A and B. In this regard it is a little noted fact that Jack Sulentic showed some years ago that NGC7320 is strikingly deficient in hydrogen. Since this is the raw material out of which stars are made, the residual gas must have been stripped out of NGC7320 after the already very recent formation event of the numerous blue stars. 2) The resolved blue stars as well as the underlying population on the NW side of NGC7320 are extended toward NGC7318A and B. The blue stars even show some evidence of streaming toward the high redshift pair. The obvious model to explain these observations is that NGC7320 and NGC7318 started approaching each other. The medium surrounding the high redshift pair compressed the medium in NGC7320, initiated star formation, and then started sweeping the hydrogen out of NGC7320. The well known long, faint surface brightness tail coming out the other end of NGC7320 not only attests to such an interaction but confirms its direction. Of course the new stars in NGC7320 no longer are controlled by the gas pressure and can fall toward the gravity source in the direction of the centers of NGC7318A and B. IT WOULD BE OF CRITICAL IMPORTANCE TO OBTAIN A SPACE TELESCPE IMAGE OF THE TAIL COMING OUT OF THE SE END OF NGC7320! It is also noteworthy that the place of the major HII and star formation region in NGC7318B is just in the interface between NGC7320 and NGC9318B. It is in the form of a filament bent back toward the higher redshift galaxy in just the direction of the deduced pressure from the approaching NGC7320. The present space telescope image shows delicate absorption features emerging from the nucleus of NGC7319. Being a Seyfert galaxy, NGC7319 would be expected to be ejecting material out along its minor axis. The high redshift H alpha emission and the X-ray and radio emitting material all suggest ionized material jetting out of the NGC7319 nucleus, along the minor axis, impinging on the medium surrounding NGC7318A and B and spreading north and south. This southern material reaches essentially to the NW end of NGC7320 and attests both to the medium surrounding NGC7318 but also suggests the physical contiguity of NGC7320. Halton Arp 2 Nov, 2000 ***************************************************************** A PERPENDICULAR EXPLOSION By Kroniatalk and Friends MARK KORSKY POSTED THIS WEBSITE: http://www.isleofavalon.co.uk/edu/g-bank/articles/anctcity.html EXCERPTS: Ancient City Found In India Irradiated By Nuclear Blast 8,000 Years Ago Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945. MYTH REFERENCE FROM ARTICLE: An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. 'The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees,' says [researcher] Ganguli. DWARDU CARDONA COMMENTS: For all it's worth: The descriptions of the holocaust from the DRONA PARVA section of the MAHABHARATA as relayed by this Kroniatalk person are entirely correct - by which I mean that these descriptions ARE contained in the DRONA PARVA. However, it should be kept in mind that deities (and planetary ones at that) also took part in this warfare in which the "Triple City" was destroyed. Even so, as I had long ago realized, the descriptions of this battle, and especially its aftermath, read very much like a modern atomic confrontation. Personally, I do not believe that atomic weapons were known during the time of the Bharata War, but this has always left another door open - which raises the question: Could the planetary thunderbolts (the weapons of the Bharata War) which brought the Saturnian configuration to an end have been imbued with nuclear energy? I'm sure Thornhill will be against this notion and, not to be misunderstood, I am only posing the question. But one thing HAS to be kept in mind: As already stated, and I could supply more quotes, the descriptions in the DRONA PARVA are identical to descriptions that came out of the Hiroshima bombing and, in fact, I have compared the DRONA PARVA battle, item by item, with the Hiroshima event. These events match. As for the reported discoveries of sites in India which bear radioactive strata, I had never before now read anything of the sort and, as far as I know, nothing of the sort has made it into the type of news-literature I usually peruse. MARK KORSKY WANTS TO KNOW: I'm curious: how would an electrical explanation of the phenomenon account for the residual radiation? AMY SAID: I would guess that we always need to keep that pot on the back burner -- the possibility that previous civilizations have already "blasted themselves back into the stone age." So I won't discount it completely. But the Mahabharata is not at all alone in describing "an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death". This is certainly the same story told round the world of the gods and their lightning-weapons. That's why the working title of Dave and Wal's upcoming book is "Thunderbolts of the Gods". So, if this ancient city was destroyed by an atomic bomb, then there must have been many other bombs dropped as well to generate the many other stories. The other possibility (the one that I favor) is that the description of gigantic thunderbolts is a description of interplanetary electrical interactions. And, like particle accelerators in labs, a planetary thunderbolt would also be capable of initiating both fusion and fission reactions that could produce radioactive isotopes. Certainly something of that sort happened to the dinosaurs in Colorado -- paleontologists have to hide their finds because old prospectors (with Geiger counters) would grind up dinosaur bones for their uranium content. Like the article reports in India, many areas of the Rockies produce rocks which (when used in building foundations and fill) lead to some of the highest rates of cancer and deformities in the USA. MARK KORSKY SAID: Thanks for your reply. You mentioned > the possibility that previous civilizations have already >"blasted themselves back into the stone age." One reason I find this possibility incredible is the extensive infrastructure required to create nuclear weapons, and the intense contamination caused by nuclear reactors, chemical plants (for making conventional explosives), electronics factories, etc. As far as I know, no evidence of such ancient toxic sites exists. And the nuclear explanation cannot account for the "fighting sky chariots," or the imagery of lightning bolts. (As we know too well, nukes are more like "balls of fire.") I asked about electrical causes of residual nuclear radiation, and I like your answer: > ...like particle accelerators in labs, a planetary thunderbolt >would also be capable of initiating both fusion and fission >reactions that could produce radioactive isotopes. Stupendous discharges could involve temperatures great enough for fusion (around 10^8 - 10^9 K), and if enough unstable isotopes were created, some radiation might remain after thousands of years. One could estimate the magnitude of the discharge from the amount and kind of residues. I'd think that given the geology of a site, one could also search for "combustion products" typical of such temperatures in the local surface and building materials. Please understand that I am a complete novice to the theories of catastrophism, and largely skeptical (for want of having read the evidence). But the idea enchants me, both the scope of the questions it addresses, and the audacity of its claims. It's a pleasure to be part of your discussion. MICHAEL ARMSTONG JUMPED IN WITH: My answer is not intended to be definitive but is just exploring some alternatives to an atomic weapon explanation. First of all it is helpful to get some things into perspective. The US military has what is called a FAB, a fuel-air-bomb that is comparable to a nuclear weapon in explosive energy release and destruction. The device works simply by exploding an aerosol device that mixes a huge amount of flammable gas such a propane with a comparable amount of air into an explosive mixture over a huge area, and then detonates it in a huge and widespread fireball. The magnitude of the size of the aerosol cloud before detonation is what gives this device such destructive potential. Secondly, it is apparent that in a catastrophe on October 8, 1871 around the Chicago area and know as the Great Chicago Fire, a small piece of a comet entered the Earth's' atmosphere and both discharged electrically and exploded and burned an area that covered parts of four states. Material that would be coming at us from outer space would most probably be coming from a non-oxygenating environment and could consist of almost any material;, many of which would react violently in the Earth's Oxygen-Nitrogen atmosphere. It is helpful to understand that for the non-metallic elements Oxygen and Nitrogen are the second and third most chemically reactive elements behind Fluorine. A chunk of material coming in could be partly elemental Phosphorous, Selenium or Sulphur, for instance. Even vaporized Fe has a tremendous reactive potential when suddenly released into Oxygen/Nitrogen. According to Velikovsky's research we have significant reason to believe that chunks of frozen hydrocarbons--naphtha, methane, ethane, propane, acetylene, etc.--have intersected the Earth and rained down fire and flammable material with devastating results. Thirdly, in the electrical universe view of things, it is possible and even probable for incoming material to be charged--sometimes even HIGHLY charged--in relationship to the Earth, and then, after glowing brightly on its way into our electrical environment, to discharge in a bolt or bolts between it and the Earth. Such a discharge could or would fragmentize or vaporize this material, and in a moment release the combined electrical, chemical and kinetic energy, and could easily make our largest nuclear weapons look puny by comparison. Finally, it is a postulate of the electric universe view that such highly energetic discharges in/through our atmosphere can and do initiate a degree of nuclear fusion, say, between O & O giving S and can rain down a shower of radioactive material, or otherwise produce radioactivity and remenant magnetism around the crater or rille. And, there is nothing to say that incoming material cannot be already radioactive. I hope this helps us all see that there is a significant range of possibilities for the above type of destruction other than postulating that such was a designed-by-intelligence nuclear weapon in purposeful warfare. Probably variations of the above scenario have happened MANY times down through the ages and around the world. Consider the Tunguska event. See Dr. V's writings regarding the time around Sennacherib in _Worlds in Collision_ and other articles in Pensee and Kronos concerning such destructive fireballs as well as discharge-induced fusion. I also hope that you continue to sleep well:>) HANK MAY ADDED: My background is in ionizing radiation, but (as with everyone else on the planet) I have had no experience with fission or fusion caused by interplanetary lightning or thunderbolt strikes. One can only speculate. I would simply like to point out that Mark's mentioned an essential point that must be considered in any study of the possibilities. Although a self described novice, he pointed out that "One could estimate the magnitude of the discharge by the amount and kind of residues ... and could search for "combustion products". I am doubtful about estimating the magnitude of the thunderbolt, but he is solidly on the mark about studying the amounts and kinds of [radioactive] residues and combustion products. Such a study could likely shed light on whether fission or fusion took place, when it took place, and the amount of fissioning/fusioning that occurred. It could also eliminate possibilities such as the radiation being natural, or even modern contamination events (such as surreptitious disposal or dispersal of radioactive waste). For example, Amy mentioned radioactive dinosaur bones and wondered what caused that. Knowing that the radionuclide is uranium strongly suggests that the radioactivity is natural. Determining the isotopic ratio of U235/U238 would confirm it, and a careful analysis of decay products associated with the uranium would clinch it with near absolute certainty. There is also a mechanism that is known ... uranium deposits were created when solubilized uranium flowed through underground interstices until it arrived at a place (different pH, different chemical environment, etc.) where it left solution and precipitated. Dinosaur bones back then might have contained (and apparently did contain) the right chemicals to cause the precipitation. I think radioactive dinosaur bones are well known and the cause understood, although I once did a quick search to confirm this and found that the literature to be scant (nonexistent). I didn't find anything, but I have a strong recollection of seeing an article somewhere on dinosaur bones contaminated with uranium, during my career in environmental radiation. I am left wondering if the astronauts on the moon were able to collect any information that would shed light on the specific radionuclides that are responsible for the enhanced radiation of craters on the moon (mentioned by Wal). If so, the data could shed a lot of light on the mystery. ANNA MORTON ADDED FROM HER EXPERIENCE: I have a large collection of dino bones from Colorado and Utah. These are from many different species and come from different geological periods too. They all are radioactive. The bones from Moab, Utah show the same amount of radioactivity as the bones from Fruita in Colorado. Both areas are famous for their uranium deposits. The question is, are these bones contaminated? I purchased at one time some fossilized eggs from China, and they show radioactivity as well, so the bones from Argentina. Anna HANK MAY ADDED A CAUTION: I am assuming that all of the radioactivity is from contamination by natural uranium, which decays predominantly by alpha emission. Alpha radiation is extremely hazardous if it gets inside the body, but poses negligible threat otherwise, as alpha particles cannot penetrate the dead layer of skin. However, the alpha decay and subsequent decays are accompanied by beta and gamma radiation, which can penetrate the skin and can be hazardous if there is enough of it. I would recommend that you not eat any of the bones (which hardly needs to be said), and that you also not store them under your bed or anywhere where you are apt to spend a lot of time very near them. RETURNING TO MARK KORSKY'S QUESTIONS: I'm curious: how would an electrical explanation of the phenomenon account for the residual radiation? WAL THORNHILL REPLIES: There is absolutely no reason to attribute nuclear technology to ancient people. Velikovsky gave the answer to this question decades ago in the 1950's when he claimed in Earth in Upheaval, "Should an interplanetary discharge take place between the Earth and another celestial body, such as a planet... with possibly billions of volts of potential difference and nuclear fission or fusion, the effect would be similar to that of an explosion of many hydrogen bombs...". He claimed in advance that some craters on the Moon would exhibit enhanced radioactivity. That was later discovered to the surprise of geologists. The specific appearance and action of the electric discharge is the realm of the plasma physicist and high-voltage electrical engineering. The tornadic effects "causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees" is expected from the rotary nature of such a discharge and the acceleration of matter upwards. The strange type of burning associated with an electric arc is also expected and was reported in the famous Chicago fires at the time of the return of Biela's comet. It is also interesting, given the widespread association of "thunderstones" with lightning, that the blast should be called an "iron thunderbolt". The parasol imagery is interesting and potentially important. CARDONA: Well, I guess that answers the question I posed in my previous message re this discussion. However, let's be careful here. The Triple City destroyed during the DRONA PARVA battle compares with the triple city associated with the Saturnian/Martian hero and must therefore be understood as a celestial entity. (I won't go into details here, but think of the Saturnian enclosure, or band, which, at one time, was composed of three individual rings before it separated into seven.) If that is the case, then the warriors involved in this battle would also have had to have been celestial entities (Talbott's hordes of darkness?). And yet, the ills that befell the CONQUERING army, together with their steeds and elephants, as also the damage suffered by buildings and innocent birds, compare so favorably with the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust, that one is torn between accepting the entire event as being TOTALLY celestial or only PARTIALLY so. ***************************************************************** STRANGE GRAVITY By Wal Thornhill The following report was posted on space.com. It seems possible that we are seeing the effect of electrostatic charge on an interplanetary spacecraft that is changing its apparent mass from that measured on Earth. That would be a simple explanation for the boost in acceleration due to an effective increase in the gravitational force between the spacecraft and the Earth. Of course this model has implications for Chip Arp's observation that quasars appear to gain mass as they age. Wal Thornhill ARTICLE FOLLOWS: May the Force Be With You? Mysterious Effect May Influence Spacecraft Trajectories By Leonard David Senior Space Writer posted: 02:40 p.m. ET 26 November 2000 WASHINGTON -- Space probes using Earth to slingshot their way outward into the solar system appear to have received an extra boost by a mysterious force - perhaps an unknown component of gravity. Scientists hope to confirm the unusual effect as the Stardust spacecraft whips by Earth this coming January. Analysis by radio scientists of the post-Earth flyby trajectories of three spacecraft have shown each craft to have picked up an unexpected increase in speed: The Galileo spacecraft in December 1990; the Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR) probe in January 1998; and the Saturn-bound Cassini spacecraft in August 1999. The Galileo spacecraft slipped by Earth a second time in December 1992. But the vehicle dipped too close to Earth making the measurement of any "flyby effect" unusable. Doin' the Doppler shift "This problem has been with us for about 10 years, and we haven't found a solution," said John Anderson, a senior research scientist and member of the Stardust science team at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California. "We're looking forward to the Stardust flyby. That would be our fourth measurement of this anomalous effect," Anderson told SPACE.com. [ed. note: to learn more about the stardust mission and its January 15, 2001 flyby, visit: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/] ~Wal Thornhill ***************************************************************** PLEASE VISIT THE KRONIA COMMUNICATIONS WEBSITE: http://www.kronia.com Subscriptions to AEON, a journal of myth and science, now with regular features on the Saturn theory and electric universe, may be ordered from this page: http://www.kronia.com/html/sales.html Other suggested Web site URL's for more information about Catastrophics: http://www.knowledge.co.uk/sis/ http://www.flash.net/~cjransom/ http://www.knowledge.co.uk/velikovskian/ http://www.bearfabrique.org http://www.grazian-archive.com/ http://www.holoscience.com http://www.users.uswest.net/~dascott/Cosmology.htm http://www.catastrophism.com/cdrom/index.htm http://www.science-frontiers.com ----------------------------------------------- The THOTH electronic newsletter is an outgrowth of scientific and scholarly discussions in the emerging field of astral catastrophics. Our focus is on a reconstruction of ancient astral myths and symbols in relation to a new theory of planetary history. Serious readers must allow some time for these radically different ideas to be fleshed out and for the relevant background to be developed. The general tenor of the ideas and information presented in THOTH is supported by the editor and publisher, but there will always be plenty of room for differences of interpretation. We welcome your comments and responses. thoth at Whidbey.com New readers are referred to earlier issues of THOTH posted on the Kronia website listed above. Go to the free newsletter page and double click on the image of Thoth, the Egyptian God of Knowledge, to access the back issues. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: kroniatalk-unsubscribe at egroups.com